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The aspect of the Leaf roster that should give us the most cause for optimism going forward…

Having followed hockey—and the Maple Leafs devotedly—since the late 1950s, one thing has long been clear:  Leaf fans, while united by cheering for the same team, generally see the world, and each other, quite differently.

What do I mean?

Well, we may all support our beloved Leafs.  That much we have in common.  But how we do it, well, that can be quite different.

What particular fans see as being a good, true, loyal, passionate Leaf fan can often be viewed by fellow Leafers as, say, being a bandwagon, hot and cold, off and on, disloyal and un-informed (or just plain dumb) Leaf follower.

We are often a judgmental lot, to be sure.

Ley’s just take an example:  years ago, if you had dared say, out loud, that Wendel Clark wasn’t the best thing in Leafland since sliced bread throughout his entire (three separate times) Leaf tenure, you would have been booted off the metaphorical fan bus.  It was not acceptable to suggest that Wendel, as years went by, was worn down, tired, nowhere near being the factor he was in his early Leaf days.  He was Wendel.  He was great.  You had to love Wendel.  (And “Dougie”, too, though by the end of his relatively short Leaf tenure, he was miserable, it seemed, and wanted out badly…)

If was perfectly acceptable on the other hand to say that Larry Murphy was a bum, though he had a Hall-of-Fame career before and after his time in Toronto.  That he was a bum was the prevailing opinion, so it won the day.  Anyone with a different perspective didn’t “know their hockey”.

In the somewhat more recent era, fans were supposed to throw Raycroft and Lebda under the bus, as if they were solely responsible for unsatisfactory results.  That view was harsh and, in my mind, unfair.  (This is not to defend the Raycroft for Rask trade, but GM’s make decisions for the future and the here and now and at the time, the Leafs were looking for a jolt in goal.)  Raycroft had been stellar in Boston for the most part, Lebda played significant minutes in helping the Wings win a Cup.  But they couldn’t win here, where it’s so easy, after 45 years, to be cynical.

Group think works that way, eh, even in the world of sports fandom. To speak outside that conventional point of view, the prevailing opinion, sets you apart- and usually not in a positive way.

A more current example?  If you liked Jonas Gustavsson as someone who, with the right support systems and coaching, might be a good NHL goalie some day, again you would be dismissed as someone who didn’t know their stuff.  Didn’t you see his stats?  He can’t play.  And if you think he can, you’re a moron…

Same with Luke Schenn and I could go on.

My point?  These intra-Leafworld debates never end.  In this day and age, they thrive all over the social media landscape—Twitter, the blogosphere, Facebook, chat forums—anywhere one cares to look.  Leaf fans tear into each other with serious venom at times, and to be honest, while I suppose it is fine for some people, that’s not exactly the part of being a hockey fan that I enjoy at this point in my life.

A thoughtful discussion about the pros and cons of a particular approach to coaching and playing the game?  Absolutely.  Respectfully debating (as best we can as “non-experts”) the merits of individual players—with a truly open mind that doesn't stop assessing after a preliminary point of view has been developed—is healthy and can be entirely worthwhile and yes, a lot of fun.

But I’m not a fan of judging how “good” or “loyal” other Leaf fans are, and not particularly enamored of the notion that we have to have these bitter “internal” disputes. (It's the same in our blog world. I think there are all kinds of outstanding Leaf sites out there.  Sometimes they provide, in my mind, better insight than I get from the mainstream media.  I try to promote other writers as much as I can, because good work should be recognized...)

Hey, as I’ve posted here before, we hall have our likes and dislikes, fair or not.  That goes for how we look at professional hockey players, too.  Sometimes we just don’t like a certain player, or the way he plays.  A different fan may see something entirely different in that player, and that’s how things work—within and beyond the playpen that is the world of professional sports.

This is all a rather long-winded way of opening the door today here at VLM to getting your thoughts on a subject that I feel is timely.  That is, where, exactly, are our Maple Leafs?  Are they headed to the playoffs?  Does that even matter this season?  More importantly, are you pleased with what appears to be Dave Nonis’ long-term vision for this long moribund franchise? (Curt at Blue ChipProspects wrote an interesting piece on Nonis recently, detailing the new Leaf GM’s decision-making results in his years at the helm in Vancouver.)

What I’d really like to hear from you today, however, is this:  several years into what Nonis’ predecessor started as a on-again, off-again long-term (or was it short-term?) rebuild, are you satisfied?  Almost 10 games (4 wins, 4 losses) into a new, if compacted, season, how do you feel?  And the question I most want you to address today is simply, what gives you, as a Leaf supporter, the most cause for hope and optimism?

My threshold, if that’s the proper term, (maybe the standard against which we should be having this discussion is the better way to look at it) is this—I would like you to share your views on how far we are away from being a serious Cup contender (as we were between 1999 and 2004, when in any give year we were “this close” to having a real shot at making it to the finals)?  And not just that, but what makes you feel and really believe that we are on a path to ongoing competitiveness against the best teams in the Eastern Conference?

Does your positive belief stem from:

  1. Nonis’ apparent blueprint, and his perceived ability to have helped build the Canucks to what they have become over the last five seasons?
  2. Carlyle’s ability to inspire his team and also play a system that will breed a winning culture?
  3. A balanced scoring approach on the offensive side of the puck—i.e. the team has now proven it can win games without goal contributions from Kessel and Lupul, generally acknowledged as their finest offensive performers.
  4. The (albeit early days, the proof will be in the pudding) early emergence of young guns like Kadri and Frattin.
  5. That the Leafs seem to have a bit more toughness (Orr, Brown and the newcomer, McLaren ) and grit (Komarov and McClement) this season and also coming up in the system (DeVane, etc.).
  6. A defense corps that will soon be backstopped by Gardiner and Reilly.
  7. What some (including myself) would argue is James Reimer’s somewhat more composed, confident play, a la his first year in Toronto?
  8. A pipeline that features some interesting names beyond young Rielly:  Colborne, Finn, D’Amigo, Percy, et al.
  9. The fact that the Leafs should be acquiring another decent draft pick this summer, to go along with what they already have in the system.
  10. New ownership committed to winning (I’d put a smiley face here but I’m not sure how to type it in…).



I would argue there are legitimate reasons to feel hopeful if you are a Leaf fan.  You don't need to select one from the above considerations.  Choose your own reasons!  For me, if I had to pick from one of the points mentioned above, it may well be the foundation of a mobile young defense with Gardiner and Rielly, if they develop as we hope they can. 

Now, in truth, I’ve said much the same kind of thing since, well, after we got blown out of the playoffs by the Bruins in the spring of 1969—when then long-time coach and GM Punch Imlach was fired.  I remember lying in bed as a young 15 year old Leaf fan at the time and thinking what the lines would be the following season, and how, if only a few things fell our way, we could be back to being champions again.  Those who follow this site know I’ve chased that dream—and the Leafs have indeed had some pretty good teams off and on, as I've often written about—since that time.  But we haven’t accomplished the goal just yet.

I’ve learned to measure my expectations over the years.  I often feel like I’m from Missouri, if you know that expression.  And while I could make some counter-points to the above hopeful comments and question how close the Leafs really are to being competitive with the best in the NHL, for today, let’s be positive.

I look forward to you sharing your views.

14 comments:

  1. I would suppose that my sense of encouragement stems from the foundation upon which many possible futures can grow. I make the term plural because we don't know how the presence of one trade or signing might ultimately affect the whole.

    What I like is the financial flexibility we have and the improved focus on a multi-layered development pipeline. As much as we are baffled by the Kadri yo-yo, it appears that those closer to the young man have infused some maturity and responsibility to balance his well-founded confidence in some slick abilities. I hope he continues to see protected success on the 3rd line to grow his NHL game (instead of trying him with Kessel on anything other than the PP).

    Having options where we can send a player to Dallas Eakins for some fine-tuning, while others ply their trade before opportunity knocks (and a Frattin seems to have emerged from his start-of-season, short-term AHL-NHL transitionary funk, for example).

    I like the players comments about (and my own observations of) Randy Carlyle's direct and clear communications. He's not exactly what I had expected and I'm pleasantly surprised at this stage.

    I like his clear vision for a systemic framework, though I do hold out hope for some flexibility within the overarching intent, i.e. an 'organic sensitivity' toward certain skillsets being given freedom to flourish (allowing a Grabovski to be more creative, for instance).

    I do believe that once the plan is well-digested and more fully functional/practically operational, we'll start to see what can be done upon that foundation.

    I think we were in danger of some major changes if Burke had remained (and needed to get us into the playoffs). A little more patience may bring great reward, and Nonis is reportedly so-inclined.

    If we commit to the coaching plan & practice and continue to develop in the coming week, we may just be pleasantly surprised by an entry into the land where anything can happen (you know... the playoffs). But, even if we are on the outside looking in, I'll be happy to see a team that knows what is expected and performs to (and above) expectations...

    I have an expectancy to see many positive possibilities and hope that we all are generally supportive (and act as though this isn't 9 or 46 years in the making, rather just implemented and beginning to take root this season). If we are willing to grow with our guys who are transitioning into the team we can become, this may just be a pleasant journey - Enjoy!

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    1. oops... "in the coming weeks" - I'm not so optimistic as to believe we are only 7 days away!

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  2. You've pointed out some significant potential positives, InTimeFor62. My sense is that it will of course take time for the players to fully adjust to the demands and expectations of the Carlyle approach, but they will ultimately "get it".

    Whether he has the roster to do what needs to be done and perhaps over-achieve, I guess we'll see in the weeks ahead.

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  3. MIchael,

    Even though it might not seem like it all the time, or even some of the time. All kidding aside. I think there are many things to be positive about the Leafs for the future. It is my opinion that this team hasn't drafted and developed a truly elite player in a long time. Salming and Sittler are the two standouts from my lifetime. Wendel Clark is my all-time favourite Leaf. Even I, do not consider him to have been a truly elite player. Maybe for a season, maybe. I loved the guy to death, though.

    Perhaps the time is now. Even though I don't see Gardiner and Reilly on the same team in the future. They are very similar, very similar kinds of players. I am not sure there would be enough ice time or pucks for both of them on the same team. They would slot in on the left side in my opinion. Nonis's job is to wait and see which one he thinks is the brighter star 5 years from now. All this talk of playoffs this year, obscures the goal. A competitive team long term. There is no rush. I can wait for them to do this right. They have two potential franchise defenseman. There is no need to make a decision today, as to which one is Scott Niedermayer, and who might not fly that high.

    Frattin, man o man do I have some great feelings about him. He seems so close to becoming one of the best wingers in hockey. Yes, I acknowledge he is rough around the edges. He does need to improve, they all do. But damn, he has some skills, and size and speed. Nice shot too, it seems. He could very well be the total package. An Owen Nolan type, just more wheels. I am excited to see where Matt goes from where he is now.

    Reimer is getting to the point that I am willing to consider him a permanent NHL goalie. Not one of the best in the league, but not the worst either. He is to me, right in the middle of the pack. That is good. We haven't had this kind of goaltending for quite some time. I am pleased that he is bouncing back from the Gionta episode. I like the changes that St. Croix has implemented with him. I didn't much like having a reaction goalie try to be a blocker. It didn't fit him, or Gustavsson, for that matter. How about another marketing, corporate slogan that has no meaning. Constant improvement. If we can see Reimer deliver this one, it will be Luongo who?

    I like what Franson can become. He has all the tools in the box. He needs to figure out when to use each of them. And as someone who used to go to the dirty areas as a player. I love a d'man that hits the net, and keeps the puck away from my head. He is still young, there is time for him to get it, so to speak. Only 25. Time still, I hope he gets some urgency to his game. That would have been a good word to describe what the team lacked in Saturdays game, urgency. There wasn't any. I think that is how I would characterize Grabbo. I love his game when he plays with a sense of urgency, and I am 'meh' about him when he doesn't.

    This last one is more of a wish for the Leafs going forward, than a positive that I see. If Dave Nonis, can ignore wins and losses, Carlyle too. And play the guys with upside, development wise, instead of the guys we have figured out. I am looking at you Komisarek. There is hope in Leafs nation. Resisting the temptation that Burke fell into, the same trap, they all do here, it seems. And just build this team the proper way, through the draft and smart trades. There is a chance. No more quick fixes, I have time for a five year rebuild. I am patient, I proved that by still being here. Do it right this time. No more trades for today at the expense of tomorrow. If Nonis will do this one thing, I have a lot more optimism for the team going forward than I have had in the last 8 years, by a long mile.

    I like the fact that the Leafs aren't going to be pushed around this year. They aren't a tough team. But Carlyle can put several guys on the ice that are willing to stand up for themselves and their team mates. They aren't the team I would like them to be in this regard, but its a start, a positive one.

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  4. Frattin, Reimer, Franson. Patience. Doing what we should have done five years ago. I hear you, Jim. (Urgency is a good word, by the way. That may have been the stumbling block Saturday night. They worked to try and match up with the Bruins, but maybe lacked the sense of urgency in their game to do what they had to do to score some goals....)

    Good stuff, thanks Jim.

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  5. Does your positive belief stem from:

    "1.Nonis’ apparent blueprint, and his perceived ability to have helped build the Canucks to what they have become over the last five seasons?"

    Somewhat...the most important thing he has stated he will be patient and not deal away young players.

    "2.Carlyle’s ability to inspire his team and also play a system that will breed a winning culture?"

    That helps...I think Carlyle is a better coach than Wilson.

    "4.The (albeit early days, the proof will be in the pudding) early emergence of young guns like Kadri and Frattin."

    "6.A defense corps that will soon be backstopped by Gardiner and Reilly."

    "8.A pipeline that features some interesting names beyond young Rielly: Colborne, Finn, D’Amigo, Percy, et al."

    Yes to all the above. The real hope for the future of the team lies in the youth and prospects of the Leafs. As a group the youthful talent is far above average.

    With the callup of Holzer, there are 8 guys that played for the Marlies this season and Gardiner would make 9. That's allot of young talent with more to come.

    "5.That the Leafs seem to have a bit more toughness (Orr, Brown and the newcomer, McLaren ) and grit (Komarov and McClement) this season and also coming up in the system (DeVane, etc.)."

    A little bit, but there are problems here. If you play a tough Mark Fraser for 10 minutes on defence, do you really need two more tough guys in Orr and Brown or McLaren?

    Devane? We haven't seen a balanced effort from him yet with the Marlies. Not the progress I was hoping for. I'm not sure that he is any better than McClaren.

    The answer might be in Tyler Biggs and to a lesser extent David Broll. Biggs is already 225 lbs and was in a a checking role on that USA World Juniors gold medal team. He could easily turn into an excellent defensive player and tough guy who gets 20 points a season. Broll also plays the PK and might have potential.

    Sometime this year, against a soft team, I would like to see them call up Spencer Abbott to the 4th line for a few games. He is plus 9 in 26 games with 19 points for the Marlies.

    McLaren, McClemment and Abbott could be a interesting 4th line.




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  6. I appreciate that you have been keeping an eye on Broll and Biggs, DP. Will be interesting to see if they develop in the years ahead and what role they could embrace with the Leafs.

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  7. The brighter points I see on the leafs team are definitely the emergence of kadri (for good on the big team I think) and frattin (we´ll see). our young defencemen in gardiner and reilly have tremendous upside and the fact the team is scorong goals without lupul and kessel (yet). with one or two "lupul and gardiner" type trades I think we´ll be a top team sooner than later.

    Also, I think there is room for gardiner and reilly on the blueline. Isn´t it better to have two great players than just one? If you could have paul coffey and ray borque would you say no? for instance, isn´t st. louis better with elliot and halak than just one of them? this hidden rule that teams ideally have just one elite player per position seems odd to me.

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  8. I see Jim's point above, portuguese leaf, but I'm probably more aligned with your thought process on this one, when it comes to Reilly and Gardiner.

    If both young players develop, I'd love to have two elite young defensemen in the lineup at the same time. Others can perhaps handle the 'sandpaper' requirements and allow those two to do what they do best.

    Nothing is cast in stone, of course, but it's a bit similar to the discussion last season about Rick Nash. If the Leafs could have acquired him, the idea would surely not have been to trade Kessel for him, right? The idea would be to add another top player to the mix, I would think.

    Thanks, portuguese leaf.

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  9. I am encouraged.
    For the most part we have been very competitive despite getting no goals from Kessel and Lupul and having Gardiner out. That is a large chunk of our offense.
    I believe that with a better power play we would at least be 5-3 (we would have won that close game vs Buffalo) or maybe even 6-2 right now (say we had scored on that 5 on 3 power play vs the Islanders to go up 4-1).

    Now I will also say that Boston and NYR are clearly ahead of us but those are 2 of the top teams in the league...It appears that in the early going that big, defensively sound teams are problematic for our Leafs.

    Hopefully Kadri, Frattin and JVR continue to emerge.
    Like the rebound seasons so far for Kulemin and Reimer.
    I also really like the added grit from Komorov and McClement.

    I have not even mentioned the defensive prospect pipeline which looks to be a strength.

    Nor have I mentioned the favorable cap space situation we should find ourselves in over the next few years (hopefully Nonnis can take better advantage of this).

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  10. Solid post, apollo678.

    I guess there will always be games we "could" have won (or lost, for that matter). Four and four is probably a fair reflection of how we've played so far, given the opposition. Everybody seems to be short-handed with injuries these days, so we are probably not alone in that regard.

    I wonder if the cap space flexibility you cite will be utilized to keep adding "non-stars"? By that I mean the Leafs have not been able to attract high-end UFA's for many years, but we do seem to be able to attract that second-tier type of player. Strengthening and fine-tuning the so-called "bottom-six" (though our third line these days is certainly not a "bottom-six" kind of line) may be the way to go, as DP has alluded to in the past here.

    Thanks apollo678. We'll see how this week goes for the Leafs. A busy schedule...

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  11. Lots of reasons to be hopeful, Pt 1!
    1. Nonis’ apparent blueprint, and his perceived ability to have helped build the Canucks to what they have become over the last five seasons?
    Nonis is another proof/pudding guy for me. I'll have a better sense of him when he makes a trade or two. For now, it's really Burke's team (and coach), isn't it? And they're looking pretty good so far. By my reckoning, they'd be 6-2 with a little luck. And they're tougher to play against than in the past 4 years.
    2. Carlyle’s ability to inspire his team and also play a system that will breed a winning culture?
    I like Carlyle a lot. He seems to clearly communicate what he expects from each player, and the reasons for their ice time/bench time aren't a mystery. He's also publicly supportive of his players, without whitewashing their play. So far, so good!
    3. A balanced scoring approach on the offensive side of the puck—i.e. the team has now proven it can win games without goal contributions from Kessel and Lupul, generally acknowledged as their finest offensive performers.
    4. The (albeit early days, the proof will be in the pudding) early emergence of young guns like Kadri and Frattin.
    5. That the Leafs seem to have a bit more toughness (Orr, Brown and the newcomer, McLaren ) and grit (Komarov and McClement) this season and also coming up in the system (DeVane, etc.).
    I've realy enjoyed watching the evolution of the Kadri/Frattin/Komarov line. Their creativity and feistiness is a joy to watch. Komarov is quickly becoming one of my favorite Leafs. He crashes the net, hits hard but clean, and can set up plays - just the sort of player we used to bemoan not having. McClement is another jewel. I like him on the Grabbo line. And I have to mention another reason to be hopeful: the re-emergence of Kulemin as a force. He looks like he's back in the game. I don't know that he'll score 20+ goals again, but he's no longer invisible. If we play most games like we played v. the Bruins on Saturday, we won't spend many games being pushed around like we have been over the past few years.

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  12. Reasons to be hopeful, Pt 2!
    6. A defense corps that will soon be backstopped by Gardiner and Reilly.
    Gardiner and Reilly are definitely worth looking forward to, but I also like the way our defence is playing right now. Far fewer mistakes than in previous years, some solid hits, and efficient clearing more often than not. Another reason for hope in this young season is the improved play of Franson and Komisarek. Not to mention Kostka - I don't understand those who are down on him. He's played beyond what we could've expected - and who else would you put in there? He's learning quickly, and is a keeper, to my eyes.
    7. What some (including myself) would argue is James Reimer’s somewhat more composed, confident play, a la his first year in Toronto?
    Reimer has really rebounded (no pun intended). Will he get better? I trust so. He still tends to freeze after a shot goes by him, and he ducks on shots that are top shelf. Hopefully, as his confidence grows, he'll improve to that top level. He's definitely kept us in some games already this year.
    8. A pipeline that features some interesting names beyond young Rielly: Colborne, Finn, D’Amigo, Percy, et al.
    I'm eagerly anticipating the arrival of these younger guys. I've been to a few Marlies' games, and they look good. I think another reason to be hopeful is that Dallas Eakins is doing a fantastic job developing the young guys. Has any Marlie looked out of place when they're called up? I can't think of anyone.
    9. The fact that the Leafs should be acquiring another decent draft pick this summer, to go along with what they already have in the system.
    If we aren't drafting in the top 5, say, I have no idea whether to be hopeful or not. But it'll be another measuring stick for Nonis and his staff.
    10. New ownership committed to winning (I’d put a smiley face here but I’m not sure how to type it in…).
    The new ownership were as hamfisted as Harold Ballard in their turfing of Burke, so the jury's out on them, for me. The less they meddle, the happier I'll be!

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  13. Nothing like a good two-part post, Gerund O'!

    I like everything you said. We've both been around long enough to know there have been mirages in our sights before (especially so the thirstier we get for a winning team!) but that said, there is hope. Some guys are playing better than expected (Kostka), others, like Kulemin, look a little more like their "old" selfs. Reimer has been steady so far. The youngsters nurtured by Eakins have not, as you said Gerund, disappointed.

    For now, let's hope!

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